our needs change. The timing of your questions is important. Also newspapers pay you peanuts and youre usually always in jeopardy of being part of their next layoffs, dont take a pay cut to work for one, ever. I heard often when I was considering my current career, and in grad school, that no one gets into this field to get rich, and I thought to myself, thats fine, if I wanted to get rich I would have tried to be an investment banker or something.. Your career aspirations arent everyones. I cannot agree more with Alisons analogy about romantic partners. But now, he's really pressing for it becuase he needs me. At 25 I wouldnt have moved across the country. Turn Down A Job Offer For me that makes a huge difference. Is this normal at 25? The only thing I can add to the wonderful advice from the other comments and Allison is that if you were to move to a rural area, its possible that your cost of living would go down such that a $10-$14K pay decrease would actually feel like a raise, depending on where youre moving from/to. I think youre considering the right things for your own well-being, but theres another aspect that might help. 1. Now, 5 years after college, I am very happy in a job that is mostly 9-5 and theres only occasional travel. Now that Im 30 and have a husband and daughter, I care much more about being home every evening for family time, getting flex time to take care of appointments, and actually being able to use my 4 weeks (heck yeah!) I also struggle with the guilt of being unproductive while vegging in front of the TV for hours after work (also would-be-frugal me has guilt about the fact that Im watching cable). I now realize I dodged a major bullet if they had to use deceptive and shifty practices to get people in the door. Perhaps you get a bad vibe at There is NOTHING WRONG with wanting to do work you enjoy, even if its not the most prestigious thing in the field. So keep it really short and unemotional, and NON-personal. They wanted to hire more of my profession (which was very very different than their norm) . The salary they offered was pretty darn good for their market but not exciting by Austin standards. Luckily my now-boss and I were able to work out a deal behind the scenes where all she assigns all necessary travel to anyone-but-me so Ill only need to in an emergency situation if everyone else is unavailable (has yet to be an issue). than I could have done. There have been plenty of letters and comments here about people being pre-emptively rejected for jobs and chastised by potential employers! It sucks to turn down a great career opportunity and then sit at home binge watching Netflix for 4 hours every night. And I have been there too. I know people have their stuff and maybe cant control it, but there are genuine reasons interviewers find it so hard to deal with. I just started listening to it last week and its really hitting home in a lot of ways for me. Theres a really good article out there dissecting the 737 Max issues, and yeah, it was a string of things, including design decisions, poor maintenance and parts replacement and undertrained pilots that actually caused the crashes. Same. Like Ive already spent so much time interviewing for this, I guess Ill just take it. Or that the person will have been so charmed by the company that theyll jump at the chance to work there, salary be damned. Its really damaging to put that on young people and really harmful to the field as a whole. College me would have loved this schedule, and quite possibly requested more travel to more exciting and far away locales, but college me also didnt have a handful of chronic illnesses to deal with and, thus, had more energy for that. As Ive gotten older Ive realised that. Yeah, thats what extended stay suite hotels are FOR. Ive worked third shift in the past, but I wouldnt ever do it again. Not taking the job is NOT a referendum on your worthiness or professionalism or value. I hear your frustration. For salary, the application might mention a vague range, but plenty of companies dont even do that. Eventually she got and accepted their offer. Crying just derails it. I spent years unable to fly due to paralyzing fear. However, I was lucky enough to find out BEFORE the interview that a former bully manager was in charge of the department with the vacancy. Sometimes youre open to those things if the rest of the job/salary is good enough and then the other details turn out not to be persuasive enough. Its a 6-episode lecture that you can get for free if you sign up for a trial version of Audible. You dont owe YOURSELF to take the job. I think you should trust your gut and not make a move that doesnt feel right to you. Yeah. Boss looks sad. Different communication methods have their benefits and drawbacks, but this is the golden rule to follow when turning down a job offer: use the same method they used to extend it . Especially since OP is rejecting *them*. This meant that the salary they were offering, which she did not learn until the second round of interviews, wasnt actually that competitive. I try to think of a random word and repeat it in my mind to distract myself. I was told it would come with actual job security and benefits. Also I would either have to work a full day every weekend or every other full weekend depending on the schedule of the person already working in the area. But looking back, there was no WAY I could have made it work. Theyve also changed careers several times, and dont really know what they want an OK lifestyle if thats what you like, but I feel like its a lot more stressful and less stable, and if you dont enjoy it, at a certain point you need to limit yourself, mourn for what might have been a little, and then dig in a enjoy the life youve chosen and built for yourself. pizza and Netflix day.. Putting down the guilt might help with the emotionality. I told him, hell get it back when I have time to get to it since he didnt raise the proper protocol or ask me through the appropriate channels, and Im working on something more pressing that was submitted to me correctly. Speaking of romantic partners, you know how people sometimes say things like my partner is great except for his terrible temper or my partner is great except shes poisoning my food? But if youre applying thinking This is new, different, outside my comfort zone and then when it seems to be working your brain starts to think Oh, but I want old, familiar, inside my comfort zone then some unpacking would help. Heck, older me appreciates it. I sympathize because I get that way too, but I know my limits when I apply and restrain from applying randomly to every marketing job I see. The review was bad, the company was sketchy and the I feel like I let down my college self every day. (Im a compulsive binge-watcherrewatcher, even.) Not only was it spot on in what it described, it even clarified some things that I hadnt really understood about repairs. Good luck to you. If OP is actually expressing disappointment in that manner to hiring managers, thats a slightly different ball game. Per my comment below, my company repairs aircraft and Id been working there a couple of years when someone lent me a copy. For the sake of conversation, I had a one bedroom apartment in grad school that cost me $600/mo. Both people might be happy you helped them team up. Maybe you would rather deal with the current work culture than change and have to give up a good salary or predictable hours. Major flying-phobe here (as in I did not fly for 12 years straight because of it) and I totally second Mentour. Youll find something that is a great fit for you! Its really frustrating because you can sometimes get pretty far along the process before it becomes clear what the salary offered might be, and it might not be an acceptable number. Understanding the short-term vs. long-term tradeoffs may help you embrace an opportunity, or it may clarify that you really want something different. Is the organization struggling or in downsizing mode? This is definitely true for us as well. I know this can probably be applied to multiple fields but my experience in grad school and after for librarianship was exactly the same. So Ive seen it bounce all around. As one client put it: "I should never have accepted their offer; it was a toxic environment and I was not set up for success, but I was blinded by the money and prestige." Why do microcontrollers always need external CAN tranceiver? Anyway, what you write sounds totally normal, and reminds me of where I was in my mid-late 20s as well. Quality of life and pay are both excellent reasons to turn down jobs. Let the company know of your decision right away. Whether declining a job offer over the phone or by email, youll want to be prepared with a concise, respectful talking track. a Job Offer It sucks but pretending that market forces dont exist is foolish, and it makes you feel worse in the long run because it makes it seem like its your fault for not finding that unicorn job, when the truth is that the unicorn job just doesnt exist (or is so rare its pointless to orient your life around trying to get it). Also, I say this with much compassion and others are probably saying it too you are most likely stressed and burned out and could benefit from therapy. After this ridiculously long process, they came in with total compensation at $10k below the minimum salary I said Id accept but noted that the yearly bonus they paid out would bring it right to the minimum. I think an important thing to remember with peer pressure and jobs is that there are downsides to every single job. I think we need to remember that even the strictest religions and philosophies mandate downtime, and that Buddhism often seen as the key to peace demands it! Learn from my mistakes. You dont have to do that. (I love the culture of my office, and so occasionally working through a weekend or canceling plans with friends to handle breaking news feels like an acceptable tradeoff; another friend works somewhere where editors dont breathe down your neck to file, but the newsroom is struggling and depressing; etc.). While of course its not an everyday thing, we dont as humans have the ability to turn off emotions at the office door. There have been plenty of jobs that sound great on paper that Ive decided not to even apply to because my work-life balance is very important to me; I dont want to spend two hours or more commuting a day, I dont want to regularly have to work late, and I deserve to be paid well. I have never been laid off or involuntarily out of work in my entire life. Good things and good things for you are not necessarily the same thing, and thats fine! Its a lot of fun. I dont have the greatest salary as a result. Ive also found that a lot of my passion work is better off as a side thing, fwiw. Ive increasingly been of the opinion that we focus way to much on what are you interested in, find a job doing that and dont give as much space to talk about the lifestyle you want and how it matches up with different jobs. You If youre in dire financial need, you probably cant be as selective; there comes a point where the financial math may dictate that you need to take what you can get, at least for the time being. Example: Im in Austin, which has a relatively high cost of living in Texas. Employers get frustrated when a job candidate ghosts them in the final steps of filling an opening. I recently turned down a job because I didnt have a good feeling about it. Be transparent. Teenage and College Me was fine with working anywhere from 1 full-time job and 2 additional part-time jobs to 3-4 different part-time jobs (plus random babysitting gigs) on top of schoolwork. I had one I applied for that just mentioned working on their work site. But the reality is, constant travel or moving across the country isnt right for everyone. My jobs description said periodic travel required which actually means once a year, we have an all-team meeting at the HQ. Keep targeted. A lot of places are very vague about what they actually do if youre just browsing through some Indeed ads. Watching a play live is typically a purposeful activity requiring planning, whereas binge-watching or other screen activities *can* be more aimless. This is such a hard thing about growing up Im still struggling with it at 33. Did UK hospital tell the police that a patient was not raped because the alleged attacker was transgender? Its also sometimes just hard to know your dealbreakers until youre facing them down. FAA dont play. 5) Twenty six times a year, something nice arrives in my mailbox. Human resources professionals get sent a lot of resumes. Exactly I applied for a job that looked perfect on paper and travel was even discussed in the phone interview with the recruiter as once or twice a year for a 3-5 day trip. I have a very brain intensive job (software developer) and a couple of chronic illnesses, including migraines. You shouldnt feel ashamed for making choices based on your happiness. When I was younger, the one week a month probably would have been preferred since it makes it easier to visit that other citybut now that I have pets, 1 overnight trip a week lets me just leave out a couple extra food bowls whereas a weeklong trip would definitely require arranging a pet-sitter. Why do planes not fall out of the sky every day? Step 2 gets better for 3-5 years, and Step 3 is really awesome. Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own. A couple days every other week? They could be written by an underpaid, overworked HR lackey who doesnt know the nuances that a specific role needs. To be fair, you shouldnt have to go above and beyond to have full cupboards and paid bills. So instead of 1500 for an apartment, its 1200. I only mean this as a short-term solution when you face these types of offers in the future. It sounds like shes cried for real, and more than once, at least if you go by this quote: Ive worked very hard to get where I am right now and get the job offers Ive received, and Im shocked to find myself a blubbering, agonizing mess who rejects good jobs that college me would have jumped at just because of work-life balance, then cries on the phone to hiring managers.. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. When I was younger and far, far more foolish I genuinely thought people who cried in front of others were doing it deliberately. While she liked the work, she couldnt abide the culture of disrespect. but yes people can be vastly different when it comes to tears so i usually dont hold it against others. So now I have a giant bedspread Im working on it takes no braincells once you get it down, and it tricks that anxious guilty part of my brain into feeling like Im being productive. Thats how its supposed to work. They can be great for someone else. turning down I said that I did not consider 50% to be some travel and declined. and giving them some space to gather themselves seem like such simple things, its making me very sad to see multiple comments expressing concern that this could hurt OPs career. Yeah, I cry for a lot of reasons-anxiety or nervousness sometimes, anger, sadness, happiness, etc. Phone interview, they mention that they have 2 shifts and which one worked best for me. What would be poverty wages in a city is solidly middle class here. Career Feeling Ashamed of Being Unemployed Am I afraid of telling people that I am out of work? OP, if it turns out a field is not for you because getting work that makes sense for you in that field is less possible than you initially thought, thats so so ok. Thats the point of experience! job Some jobs that come with unpleasant conditions (travel, location, pay, hours whatever is unpleasant for you), only have those conditions at a problematic level for a while not forever. Thank you for saying this. Some Sunday nights or Monday mornings I have to get on an airplane. I can do occasional travel but I need notice at least a couple of weeks to arrange childcare. If my friends are all moving around, working non-stop, prioritizing work over life, etc then Id feel Im somehow missing out on all the excitement, opportunities, and career growth. Its totally ok to put up boundaries so you dont over extend yourself and wind up miserable. Thats pretty much a given. If the norms in the field you want to work in are frequent travel, long hours, and/or low pay, youve got to decide if youre willing to accept those things or if you should be targeting a different type of work. 3) my kitchen cupboards are full Its pretty clear to me that this is bigger than turning down jobs for OP, or she wouldnt be writing in. Really excellent read. There is NOTHING WRONG with wanting to make money. WebI told my partner that I have decided to take the salary raise and increased vacation time with my current employer and turn down the new offer. I told them my peers would be fine with most of their work parameters but that on call would be a deadly line in the sand for those in my profession. in The Tempest. You say youre in therapy for your flying anxiety. I find that sometimes offering tissues or being reassuring makes someone cry worse or it totally derails the whole process. yeah, college me was thrilled to find a newspaper job working second shift, holidays and weekends, for low pay. Want to add I am all about work life balance. I was a Communications major in college (closest it had to journalism) and worked for a local paper (the kind that thats 90 percent town hall meetings and upcoming car shows and 10 percent hard news) shortly after graduating. I went from Low, to High, to lower, to high AF. )but I have come to see the truth of it over time. There are things you can do with a journalism degree other than going straight into PR. But at 30+ Ill move anywhere the wind blows me. People apply for jobs all the time and then learn things during the interview process that they didnt know earlier and which are prohibitive for them. I was assuming that its during the later interviewing stages/when they receive an email with an offer and review it that they discover e.g. Job offers and typically done privately, so we dont know if LW is in their office or at home. But then I remember my husband and my kids, my friends, books I want to read, the sleep I want to get, etc. Im a journalist (still, despite my rant above); most of my friends and my partner are journalists; I wouldnt say any of us perfectly check all three of those boxes, but weve figured out what tradeoffs were OK with. I tried looking for other marketing jobs, but none of them had good work/life balance. I have to deal with customers that I might not want to. Oh, one more specific piece of advice, depending on where you are: look into trade publications, which often have a better work-life balance and often equal or higher pay than newspapers or general interest news sites. Not everyone is like you, is such a valuable life lesson. Then, the next year, it was changed again and 50% of the office bonus was off the old system, and 50% was based on the corporate level bonus where if you hit budget you get a % of a % of your salary (yes, percentage of a percentage), but it didnt pay out until April of the following year. I hindsight, I know I wasnt sold on ToxicJob in the first place, and I shouldnt have taken the job. If you arent in that position, you are doing the right thing by holding out until you find the best situation for you, as long as youre being realistic. Just write an email saying that you appreciate the offer but at this current time I cannot join you company. They soften translation = you have to compromise on things., An acquaintance of mine (socially) couldnt make it to a major social event. All of you I must sleep in my own bed every night people need to realize that a lot of really good jobs, the kind that eventually get you to SVP or the c-suite, involve frequent travel, including international travel. I told them that it didnt make sense to continue talking at that point because I am unable to do that much travel for business. Since a lot of folks dont really think of COL when taking into consideration a relocation. Hey, been there, done that. updates: the monthly hikes, the coworker with the criminal record, and more, the outraged notes littering offices everywhere, update: my employee blows up my phone with memes and videos even in the middle of the night and refuses to stop, employer wants to hire my replacement but I havent quit, bosss daughter watches me while I work, and more, HR said a coworkers religion didnt count, employer wants me to lie about why Im leaving, and more, update: I feel no ambition whatsoever at work, updates: the blame-throwing employee, wearing a wedding ring to an interview, and more, updates: company asked for documentation of my dietary restrictions, Im afraid people at work will think Im being abused, and more. What LW says about their college friends jobs/offers rings so true to how I felt out of college, and still sometimes feel. Of course, all of this depends on how bad your depression is, whether or not you're getting treatment and getting it under control. Sometimes things change on the employers end.
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