As I got to know this person, my respect for them grew, and I truly didnt mind altering my normal sailor language. Near Rocky Mountain National Park here and every year someone tries to walk up to an elk in the middle of the rutt. Yeah. and if thats the case, and LW1s management or HR is spineless.well, thats a crappy situation indeed. Someone with a chronic condition might use up all 12 sick days every year and then use vacation days after that for any days theyre feeling too ill to work, or maybe they just need to work while sick the rest of the year once they run out of sick days. I dont know if the suggestion to say even solo kayaking is off the table for the summer is going to work. Im not sure what their pay out policy is though. Especially for parents with young kids- infants can easily go through a lot of sick days. Can You Be Fired for Talking About Religion at Work? If it were coverage based, they would know that sick days are a problem. It is not a misuse of the benefit to use the benefit in full. Is religion off-limits on the job? What the law says may surprise you. In August 2021 I gathered the gumption to tell her about the transplant, and that we would have ONE HOURs notice with a recovery period of several months. #3: Mention a strained or torn rotator cuff has sidelined your kayaking enjoyment. (Yes, they survived, and theyre doing great, and it was an absolute party when they came back.). Anyway, best of luck with your surgery! Congratulations LW4! Sticky human workplace topics are only sticky the first time you tackle them. If I told her my cat woke me up at 3 AM, I have no doubt my coworker would tell me I needed to get up and feed him because clearly that's the cat's time. Although it would be better for her to be more considerate, do you already have noise-cancelling headphones? And I think it depends on if its a coverage-based job or not. Welcome to the Philadelphia school system where you get 10 days but are written up after 3 occurrences(1-3 days). Talking is part of what we humans do. I opted to let my new employer know fairly soon after starting. Companies and/or managers do lots of things that arent illegal. have a recurring chronic illness Religion is the first topic on the list that Dawn McKay gives regarding what should be avoided at work. #2 In a department meeting, we ended up framing things as a reminder about their pronouns and corrected an issue about their name; some folks had been inconsistent with the gradual change on those important terms and having a reminder about others pronouns was helpful (we have a lot of non-binary people in our community). I tried headphones, I tried talking to Jane, Im not really sure where to go from here.. Is it the volume shes speaking at or the non work nature of the conversation? Narendra Modi denies religious discrimination exists in India That might be an easy fix. In Oregon, where I live, it is against the law to reprimand or discourage people from using PTO. In the late 90s, there was a listicle circulating via email, you know you are working in the 90s corporate America when and one of the items on it was something like taking a sick day means you either cannot walk, or are in the hospital. For that reason, we respectfully ask everyone on our team to remember that people come to work with many different viewpoints. I would say its more like if the company offers an allowance to pay for work clothes, and you use it to buy clothes you dont intend to wear for work because you already have enough work clothes. whats the pettiest thing youve done at work (or seen done)? Definitely an extreme example to share with HR director though. rather than get them worked up about busy season in specific, due to covid backlogs, hoped-for cancellations, and general urgency, it could realistically be anytime from this August to next March. The LW went into a lot of detail in the letter. The power dynamics and the HR persons known abuse of that makes it more than just OP being uncomfortable. Oh, kayaking is my time to totally unplug from work and everything, but thanks.. However, that will be changing in the next couple of months, as I will be moving to the workspace directly adjacent to his. Thats a reasonable timeline for starting to look for a contractor to cover for me while Im out. It is super weird to try to police peoples sick time like this. I would frame it as, it sounds like hes proselytizing and I would be very uncomfortable sitting closer to that., Not to argue, because I started down the path youre on, but Alison did mention in the comments that content of the conversations could make it squishy (my words, not hers). Pretty wild that this group couldnt stop yammering about their religion for one day (or week, same thing) when they knew their manager was visiting. A job where people are reprimanded and even fired for taking their allotted sick time and the boss is known for taking kickbacks that screw over his staff sounds awful, and I think its worth starting a search to see what else is out there. Its your time. TBC, I am 100% aligned with LW1 on this being inappropriate and frustrating (and why I wouldnt discuss religion at work, were I more religious). If they request time off during the possible surgery period will the manager approve it but warn them it might have to be rescinded? Ill be sure to keep XYZ updated so that someone can take over easily while Im away.. Was I productive during that time, not really. My son was also told 2-3 weeks before returning to work and there is a movement and lifting limitation on top of that. We all need to be comfortable saying "I'd rather not talk about that" or "I'd like to focus on our work" when a conversation takes a turn toward topics we don't want to discuss. But theres also a possibility that there will be further delays and I wont get a date until early 2024. However, this would be illegal if they fired someone who should have been protected by FMLA or the ADA. Any earlier and theres no way theyll find someone willing to commit that far out, and any later and the market will be too tight to find someone decent. I ended up getting a cancellation spot, with two weeks notice from the hospital. Its not uncommon in the US for specialties. As long as you turn up for work appropriately dressed no one will know the difference but its still dishonest and misusing the benefit. That would make me want to throw up, and Id stop sleeping. Sounds strange why would they care if you took vacation instead ? If your co-worker cant contain their conversation about their religion to their actions (My weekend? Dear Carolyn: I have a friend/neighbor who I see five days a week because we exercise together. Should religion be off-limits in workplace discussions? An incident was up to three days unless you had a doctors note. Christian Rights in the Workplace - American Center for Law and Justice Every action is premeditated to benefit themselves, at whatever cost or effect it. This is exactly what Id go with. Just make sure that September isnt unexpected (and neither are the adjoining months.) If HR wants to go on a weekend, well, OP is away the next six weekends (totally plausible in the summer, am I right? Like they initially wanted to offer two weeks of sick time and then somebody said wait a minute, but what if we offer them 12 on paper, only allow them to use 10, and collect the bonus?. 12 days at a regular 40 our a week job = 96 hours The subject is so third-rail hot that even Harvard Business School has devoted relatively few courses and case studies to it. No biggie. And I think this policy is solely for sick time. I was going to say something along the same lines: oh, Im sorry, but I try to keep my work and personal lives separate, followed by a vague line like Im sure you can appreciate that given your experience working in HR! or something else that alludes and appeals to her professional experience. I mean, if you NEED more than 12 days each year but you arent going to get paid for them, you will probably end up dragging yourself to work on the other days. Ive given up kayaking after I was swallowed by a whale! They had to change it because too many people were taking all 25 days off. Eventually we moved offices and I was assigned a desk far from his in the new building. Didnt get fired or suspended although she did this for years. You are not the only HR manager who's dealing with this issue. So I effectively did not have weekends, and sometimes my weekend suffering would bleed into the weekdays. :\. Re: Kayaking Even then, I could see requiring a doctors note for any days over 10 or even writing somebody up if this were the third year in a row they took 11 or 12 days because going right to the amount allowed every year could look suspicious and it is possible the full amount is meant to cover situations the company assumes will be rare. A few years back, the HR director discovered that I have a penchant for kayaking during the summer, which happens to be an interest we share. It is slightly sensitive to the profession in which I work, but is a valid health condition. Or is religion such an untouchable subject that I will just have to deal with it? I was mostly convinced by the more info side, and started trying to draft an email to my manager about it, but I just couldnt find words that made it feel useful to say. She was surprised to hear it, but she understood and the invitations stopped. I offered to take all my PTO for this and my wonderful boss said dont do it. 1 Approach the subject with an open mind. So its been my observation (in a system with unlimited paid sick days), that sick days are not evenly distributed between people. 3. As soon as I knew the date, I communicated that to my boss as well. The nature of a surgery is private info, but unless the manager is known to be unreasonable then letting them know the surgery may occur during busy season will be helpful to them and not harmful to you. Everybody involved is feeling bruised and I have to address the situation. Before then we have to use PTO. Even if there are people who are using them when they arent really sick, just assuming that means everybody who takes eleven days must be doing that doesnt make sense. The idea that youll be back at work after a week seems extremely optimistic to me. LW #1 you have every right to work in a place where you do have to deal with someone talking about religion all the time; ask them not to discuss and then if they continue you should escalate it to HR. Really interesting reading the comments to LW4. As HR, I encourage telling the most ludicrous stories that miiiight have passing plausibility to get out of any unwelcome social events. I wouldnt mention it yet, but a few weeks out (so about the end of July) I would give your boss a heads up that you are waiting for surgery, you dont know the exact dates, but so far you are being told somewhere between Sept. and Nov. The first step is to accept that they're just going to talk. These policies made zero difference to the people who wanted to push boundaries by taking undeserved leave. Thats something employers must account for if its important for everyone to be in the office together. Bite the bullet and go. That is so very weird. I absolutely think the heads up is a good idea, but its lean towards telling them you have no idea when theyll schedule you, that youve heard stories of people getting 2 months of warning, or people called up about a sudden opening next week, and that its important/crucial enough that you will definitely take the first available option. Does their leave get cancelled? Would it be okay for me to gently push back against discussing this subject when it comes up? If hes insulting other religions or implying people outside his religion are going to hell, yes. Im not a fan of sick leave and wish people everyone just had more PTO (and plenty of it!) Sick leave didnt get paid out, so bet your ass I started using them as soon as HR told me what was going on. If I use all 12 every year, that is because I am using my entire compensation. Good luck for when your surgery comes round. If neither of those laws was in play, it could still be illegal if they enforce the policy in ways that have a disparate impact along race or gender lines (or any of the other protected characteristics) or if they were in a state that required offering 12 sick days (although among the small number of states that require sick leave, I dont think any of them mandate that many days). No." Really wish the conversation had ended there. Nah, go in calling it what it is, and let HR and Legal push back if they must. Stay out of the way of whales, but Ill still get up close to otters and dolphins no! A coworker asked me to not talk about religion, I did after - JustAnswer They kept me in hospital for one week and I stayed home for three weeks afterwards. A never mix business and pleasure policy. Fingers crossed it goes smoothly and recovery is restful and healing is easy! Honestly, Id be job shopping at this point. I got the phone call at that time. You may be surprised by how many values you share with someone of a different faith than you. Or theres always the direct but non-specific, Oh, thank you, but no followed by a pleasant smile and no further information. I think he was appreciative because he was able to work with me to get as far ahead as possible with my work before I went out and also to get a coworker up to speed on the intricacies of my job. When my colleague had their surgery scheduled, we also talked together about how to address the change in appearance that they had with our colleagues, because it was significant in their case. Id plan on closer to the six weeks off referenced above. I dont understand what OP would gain by giving less information than they have? From talking with friends whove had the same treatment, some of them got a month or twos notice, some of them got a call that a place had opened up in a week, and would they like to take it. I accidentally accrued (via rollover) about three months sick leave when I worked a job that was so consistently and overwhelmingly busy that I dragged myself in or worked from home for a few years running, regardless of whether I was actually sick. In either case, someone could say I need to leave work early for a family event or an appointment without mentioning any religion. LW4 I would give the heads-up. So its not per se that they are penalized for using their sick days, but more that it was too many last-minute no-shows. It could be anything from your personal life to your work performance. I hope it goes smoothly! Youre not paying for it out of pocket so just delay it and theyll fit you in because money is not a thing. Currently we accrue sick days, but can only start dipping into them if were out for more than 3 days. Coworker talks about his religion all the time I have a coworker who talks about his religion frequently and loudly in our open-concept space. She told me probably a year (or more) in advance of a general just a heads up Im doing this, probably at X time, and I may need X amount of time off (and there were some other surgeries in-between). You wont get paid but also trying to take more time than allotted, even unpaid, can be a serious problem. 4. Coworker talks about his religion all the time. Or maybe Ill need *at least* x time because 1) it seems like everyone underestimates when theyll be ready to be back to work and 2) if you dont end up needing more time and can come back sooner, great! tell them youll be sure to inform them the moment you have a timeline. Agree Im a manager in the UK and had an almost identical situation with a direct report who suddenly got notified of a cancellation and was able to get in with about a weeks notice. Fellow Brit here. How To Talk About Religion At Work - Forbes Employees are not misusing the health insurance benefit when they visit the doctor. Thanks in advance for your help! Yes, I thought it was clear that I was suggesting this as a last resort. #3 Im sorry for not being more straightforward earlier; I didnt feel comfortable directly saying no when I was newer to the company, but the truth is that I like to keep certain boundaries between my work and personal life in general, and kayaking is one of those activities I use to get completely away from work.. Or even better, just say that you want to keep work separate from the rest of your life and want to draw a hard boundary between them. Which is why they just keep it light on details and focused on scheduling. I didnt mind giving a heads up because I knew that I didnt have to give any details beyond Im having surgery (Im out at work but I dont want everyone knowing all the details of my transition). Many workers there retire with months and months of pto owed them! I ended up being on call for the op for about three months in the end, and successfully worked at home after Id recovered from the op. Its helpful to remember that individuals can be different than the trend. Over the course of three years, as each summer approaches, the HR director insists on us going kayaking together. What do I need to know about WORKPLACE HARASSMENT )DHifH]@Q*F qLg@ m endstream endobj startxref 0 %%EOF 1934 0 obj <>stream I needed to see a specialist and couldnt get in until August, but with people having to cancel and change plans, out of the blue it was moved up by two months. Its four answers to four questions. In that case, no. thats all. In fact, most illegal things are illegal BECAUSE they are possible. If someone is bringing in religious literature, discussing religious beliefs, engaging in a religious practice, etc., and these activities are making co-workers feel uncomfortable or are disruptive to others, you can ask them to please refrain from these activities at work. (I worked somewhere that required exempt staff to use PTO in 4-hour increments. 1. ^^ This. That's a good thing, but we are all growing new muscles together and learning to say "Thanks so much for your concern about me, but I'm fine and don't need spiritual advice right now." This is one to have had a firm policy about socializing with co-workers or management or whatever. If they ask for more details or the nature of the surgery, my favourite option is to rapidly seize control of the conversation and issue an instruction. This month Charlie answers the question "What is the role of faith at work?". Id fit better in Northern Europe (e.g. This is why you must agree to go kayaking with her. update: how do we fire someone who refuses to talk to us? Of course, as a manager contingency planning should be in their mind anyway, but isnt always! If youre going to say Yes, we should do that sometime, youre going to have to put up with her constantly asking. A number of colleagues did used to comment on it as it was such a regular pattern. I frequently interact with the HR department and maintain positive relationships with all team members. When I had my top surgery, I was completely off work for a week, then worked from home for a week (several years before the pandemic began, my boss dropped a laptop off for me to use because we still just used desktops at the office!). I prefer happy surprises. Maybe your husbands company is complying with the local law by technically letting employees accrue 12 days on the books, but then not letting them use all 12, which would in face be illegal. More, or less, you're a bit more likely to alienate your religious co-workers by talking about their religion, than you are to get them to question their deeply held beliefs. Look at how many companies require sick notes for any call out sick? Whereas someone saying oh, Im going to my parents place for the holidays in Decemberwe all know that means Christmas. Yeah, I went to church, then we volunteered at the food bank.) then you shouldnt need to put up with that. At 3 weeks out for just 1 mastectomy, I had just had the drain removed, & limitations for the next 3-4: Personally, Id land on something like, I just wanted to let you know that Im on a waitlist for surgery. (Id also be inclined to give a range for the likely recovery time Ive had two friends have it done fairly recently one was fine to be be back in work after a week and the other took over 3 weeks although was doing some WFH after about 10 days it seems to be as much luck as anything else! True, but I do see why LW is a bit more hesitant because then HRina is going to be constantly pushing for why cant we be friends, why cant we be friends (yes, I was singing that in my head). It helps that my job is 100% computer based so the restrictions of lifting and stretching dont impact my work. Its not sharing, its preaching, and especially when LW has giant spiritual abuse wounds its not ok. Its not ok any time in a secular organization, but that makes it worse. HR said a coworker's religion "didn't count" I work in a fairly diverse office of a smattering of beliefs and subcultures. But then youre both at risk of legal action, on the behalf the third party. We will not quibble over any other time off but you better not be sick too much? Dont stay with a company that will play games and fire you for getting the flu or needing surgery. managing an employee who lies, I was the only one carded at a business lunch, and more, updates: telling recruiters I wouldnt move to a state that discriminates, new boss says everything is fun, and more, update: my boss thinks Im a stoner because I called out on 4/20. If you have an agreement with your employer to work for a certain amount of pay and benefits, you have a contract. No need to pretend OP isnt going to kayak this summer, just that they are too busy to kayak with HR. Also, Im not a fan of dissembling to avoid confrontation. For example , one where you were required to take sick leave rather than any other type when you were out sick. Worse, the religion he is so keen to discuss is the same one I myself was raised in and left (due to the fact that I personally find this particular church to be dishonest and immoral). If it were just OP dealing with the retaliation, fine. 3. If its still not resolved, then you can go to your own manager and say, Hey, I find these long, off-topic conversations really distracting. He used to blow through all his PTO just having migraines. Blanket targets are harmful and no substitute for good management. That both assumes it is ok and makes the staff member proactive. Im thinking she told me the formal time maybe 4-6 month out when it was scheduled. Its lovely to see him so happy. She took it pretty well. Witnessing at Work: When It's Taboo to Talk about Religion You know the type. Talarico is a bit more devoted. Theyre not saying you cant take it. My coworker asked not to talk about religion anymore, then proceeded to threaten to have me fired. This! The opposite, actually you are protected by federal law from unwelcome religious proselytism at work. They could decide to discriminate in other ways (not giving interesting projects/not promoting etc) which would still be illegal but more subtle. Maybe I can cross train someone with the notice Ive gotten, maybe I cant but I can at least plan a heck of a lot better than two weeks notice. They could, but the point is that many people wouldnt bother to be similarly vague about the Christmas concert, and their statement wouldnt stand out as mentioning religion. And theyd have to be cautious about ever slipping and revealing that they dont have plans on any given weekend. American workplaces have long upheld these and other conversational taboos. I am employed by a large company with a fully operational HR department. Youre across the room now and youre hearing it. You should only accept $45k., sick days accumulate but arent paid out if unused. I could close my door, thankfully, but the office had an open door culture so it definitely made ME look like the one with the issue since my door was closed all day. <3. At this point, I feel compelled to accompany her at least once, even though I am not inclined to do so. Just Say No. Someone tried to put a new born buffalo calf into their car??? I dont know if shes loud or shes just really close to me. LW4, Im in healthcare and have witnessed/co-manager patients recovering from breast reductions and cancer related mastectomies, which surgery wise have many similarities to a top surgery. I cant see it, so it doesnt exist. Get the information out there, do good work, be ready when called. But its very unlikely that OP could find themselves out of a job by disclosing that they are waiting for surgery. 1892 0 obj <> endobj 1918 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/ID[<0E5369C00AA04933A2290000E5BAD065>]/Index[1892 43]/Info 1891 0 R/Length 120/Prev 1155279/Root 1893 0 R/Size 1935/Type/XRef/W[1 3 1]>>stream my coworker told me I should be applying for other jobs, religion at Trying to do FMLA or health accommodations can be so tedious. Also they may cancel at a very short notice if they have too many nurses on sick leave or something like that. so uh that might be an important consideration. Diversity is a big part of our strength. But between now and August Im just worried and miserable :-/. Re #1 I need my own advice. Sure, the friendship predates the company, but that is nuance and nuance is tricky with folks like HRina. If I had a job where I could actually use my sick days for migraines with no repercussions, I would absolutely use them all. Id frame it as Im on an NHS waiting list for surgery I am waiting for the NSH to let me know the date but it may be at quite short notice. LW4 I can give you my experience of this it wasnt top surgery, but it was a major operation that needed a decent recovery time off work. Don't discuss politics or religion at work - LinkedIn Guy tells his gay coworker that he should stop referring to his husband as his husband because marriage is between a man and a woman Nope, nope, nope. All of these feed into the question of What do we owe to each other and to our company?. Wagner will hand over weapons to Russian forces. What should. Im thinking that just as a proselytizer doesnt honor a request, they might also try to push back on the content if theyre approached by HR. Similarly, the purpose of sick days is to make sure employees can stay home when theyre ill without losing money.
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